Saturday, January 31, 2009

OPEN POSTS WEEK ELEVEN

President WOW (Walk On Water) managed to get a stimulus bill rammed through Congress despite the Republicans finally discovering - after several years - that they had a backbone. The usual code words were tossed about in that this will create jobs, free up the credit markets, help those in mortgage free fall and punish who needs to be punished on Wall Street. Is this an echo? This is essentially the same thing I heard back in the summer. Maybe this time it will work since WOW must have a direct line to the presumed All Knowing Being (not MR) that watches all over us. Now the stimulus of taxpayer handouts back in the beginning of the year didn’t work although the $600 was nice. The various bailouts didn’t work. The companies that were given cash (ours) will soon fail or be drastically changed. Now we have the new and approved version for a price tag of 1.3 trillion dollars. Real key is housing market and that is just plain dead.

I have watched some of the talking heads and a good portion of this package is merely following up on campaign promises and has little to do with stimulus. We have heard of the ATV trails, endowment grants and all the other fluff. A good 25% of this bill is nothing more than permanent items that will stay with us forever. Now many and probably most are worthy but the intent should be NOT to add them to a package designed for something else. The Senate from what I have seen and read will examine this closely and may have significant changes. IMO the end result will be the same…this economy is going to have a lot of problems for a very, very long time and adding excessive debt to spur on inflation is not going to solve anything. Do not reward bad behavior.

I guess that’s about as close as I’ll get to the more sophisticated blogs - you know - the ones with links, cut and paste, color backgrounds and clever videos. In the meantime the talk of the illustrious Mr. Bond continues although significantly diminished as the week wore on. To some he is Benedict Arnold and to others Winston Churchill and to most I suspect the view is the same as me. A small town politician who had a public hussy fit. We have all posted our versions of the histrionics involved and some - such as Rocky - have even posted real links! I’ll overlook it this time, Rocky, but if you continue to post facts to back up your positions you are looking at double secret probation.

Post away. All are welcome.

154 comments:

Suo Mynona said...

Belanger says in a post that he would like to have the prominent people in the community say if they expect to make money from the casino. He shoule make a list of them and post all of their names.

After he posts all of the names he should then go to their homes and ask them man to man, man to woman, person to person; using vocal chords and eyeballs not a keyboard and a blog. Stop the seemingly public speculation and innuendo and just ask. It is quite simple.

Who knows, perhaps Jane may tell him to do an ivestigative article.

Middle-burrow ferret said...

Or how about using a casino neutral blog like this one where people ("prominent" or not) can volunteer to share such information.

I'll begin.

As I wrote in "the open posts week ten thread and will say again that despite suggestions that I have some kind of "deal" to be the head of some kind of addiction clinic I wouldn't take such a job if it was offered.

As I said or wrote numerous times I have no expertise in gambling or other addiction treatment. I wouldn't take any money from a fund designated for gambling addiction treatment or take a position providing such treatment.

If I was a specialist in this, however, I would see nothing amiss in accepting tribe money for providing treatment and would have been candid about the possibility from the start.

One of the prominent casino opponents and critics is a licensed psychotherapist who handles the "casualties of gambling" in her Middleboro practice and thus would be qualified for such a job.

It is possible that a casino will change the demographics of the area and more people who can afford private-pay therapy for the problems I do treat will move here. Since I no longer accept insurance and psychotherapy is expensive, it's conceivable that I'll get a few more clients as a result.

So yes, I may benefit financially if a casino opens here.

Flying Monkey said...

I expect absolutly nothing being given for free from this Resort.

What I expect is to continue looking at all avenues of revenues this resort can create and try and capitalize on everyone of them.

I have been getting paid since day one. Did it help? No it didn't The ones who really made money off of my hard work were...

1.Employees
2.Local Businesses. Fuel, Maint,Etc...
3. My Town (Excise Tax)
4. Mortgage company
5.Insurance Company
6. Feds (DOT Compliance)
7.Medical (Drug testing)
8. Anti Businesses Oh! yes Antis have made money off of me.
9.State(taxes,Registry,Inspections)

Well let me be honest.. I did get something for free.. It was very valuable advertising that I asked to be stopped. Morally it was not right!

The list is endless.. Where the little bit of revenue that I generated went back to.

Wait isn't this what the resort is supposed to do? Better our economy by adding ancilary business? generating revenues for all businesses. It would seem everyone prospers.

I proved my point.. why I think its a Great Idea!

Now the Big Pay Day.. Being on the right side. When the LIT is announced. (Which I believe it will)

The 2 Liter Diet coke will be popped for sure on that day!!!!!!

You will see a Flying Monkey with a big Green sign "Leaping around with Joy" On this day!!!

On another note..

"why exactly is Ms. B*****t so readily in contact with the tribe?"

Whoever wrote this have you been in this debate? The Tribe lives in Middleboro?

I think the tribe is very open to all if you just take the time to go meet the tribe.

bogofree said...

I would say screw the prominent people and take a look at those working two jobs or no jobs. Heck....I'm retired and would not mind parking cars for a few bucks.

I wrote in great detail about casinos that I paid a visit to. I have visited casinos in a score of states and plan to visit some in Oklahoma later this month. I also posted my impressions on several sites and tried to present a neutral approach as possible. I talked with employees and some managers and then folks in the community. No one really whined about their job. Money was nice - livable - with benefits.

I suspect that the economic bounty is over stated and the negative impacts are a ditto.

Middle-burrow ferret said...

Bogo, this "prominent people" thing is weird because sometimes it means prominent in local casino-world and other times it means - well - I'm not sure what it means.

Regardless, I agree with you that a casino will offer employment opportunities not now readily available to Middleboro and other area residents. Whether full-time career employment or part-time jobs or summer jobs (like on the golf course) for students, this is likely to be our largest employer.

The other equally important aspect is how if entrepreneurs are smart they can adapt current businesses or start new ones. They can take advantage of both the increase in population from employees who move here and (to a lesser extent) from those who patronize the casino.

Some local businesses may provide services to the casino, either on or off the casino resort site.

The casino itself will employee everyone from accountants to zigzag machine operators. Well, maybe not the later but I needed a "Z".

Flying Monkey said...

Eye's On is a value correct? Even Glady's just made the big time.

Her Blog got listed on a well known worldwide News forum.

Good for her! Congrats are in order..

Middleboro Topix is a great start. LOL! Next stop CBS evening news with Katie!!

mildly said...

Can't work this weekend because of the flu. Just want to sleep because when I'm awake I want to die. And it looks like I may be house bound on Tues/Wed because of a low developing out of the Gulf that promises another snowstorm for NE. Oh yeah, bogo, you made fun of me for not being a romantic for buying my husband a snowblower for Xmas. I'm feeling vindicated considering that this seems to be the snowiest winter in a long time. Blowing raspberies your way. LMAO!!!

bogofree said...

I am thinking of buying some old trailers and converting them to hot bunking. I guess that will be adapting? Maybe starting a translation service - Ferret...can you speak Khmer? Schools will be over crowded so maybe that will be an opportunity for me?

There will be some opportunities for some local businesses and that will take some real work since so much in a casino is self contained. I just get the impression that most just drive there and then leave. In Temecula there is extensive other attractions that did a booming business before the casino and still do so. That, I am sure, contributes to other businesses. In Middleboro - despite the PR - there is just not that much to do. I suspect Plymouth will benefit more than we do.

Anyways, with the current economic situation to overcome, even if the gin mill got all the clearance to go tomorrow it would still take years for the reward to encourage the risk.

bogofree said...

Tell that lazy azz to shovel! Get some exercise! Let him tote that wet and heavy snow all around. Oh...get that hefty insurance policy on him.

Flying Monkey said...

I shovel for food!!!!

mildly said...

Just my luck he'd survive the stroke or MI in a permanent vegetative state and I'd have to bust my azz taking care of him for the next 40 years.

Flying Monkey said...

Pittsburgh -6.5 Arizona

Bogo who you like?

I take Arizona with the points SF dinner?

Any Pittsburg lovers out there?

bogofree said...

I like AZ. The underdog thing and the fact that Warner usually does well in the big games. I'd take AZ and the points. Line has been steady for two weeks. AZ should not be there but got hot at the right time. Giants did it last year.

anonymous said...

Nice poll out on Toxic.

BB is going round and around on his blog regarding the casino. I don't want it but the money.... I thought you sat on the fence, Bogo. His attraction to Adam is strange. Adam touts the deal as the greatest and then a year or so later he wants to review it. What happened? My tranlation. You blew it.

As far as Bond the drama just wears you down. Don't need this. As far as the remaining BOS this is a collection of idiots. Look who we had on the search committee for TM. Get them back on the BOS and send this group home. They are so bad I'd even consider JP. Naw...they are not that bad.

Steelers but Arizona will cover.

anonymous said...

Be kinder than necessary-

everyone you meet is fighting

some kind of battle.

Family Guy said...

Interesting exchange on the MT blog as she responds to a BB quote. Hey, Mary - or is that Gladys? Looks like you see right through BB. That's why he likes AB. I'll give her credit she has not wavered one bit and BB spins like a top. LMAO!

"In the event that the casino comes - which it's not - a better deal for Middleboro might be a beneficial datapoint for area towns looking to get mitigation money from the state."

On a personal level, having fought this battle alongside those from Middleboro and surrounding communities full throttle for almost two years, having felt it's effects on my life and family, and having never wavered from it, I find this statement positively repugnant, and perhaps best kept for private conversations with ex- and pro-casino selectmen.

Suo Mynona said...

Jessie says:
"and with Wayne Perkins as Town Moderator, you won't even be allowed to comment. He'll simply ignore you!"

It is not a foregone conclusion that Mr. Perkins will be Town Moderator. Jessie should take out papers and run against him. Straight up, one against one, clash of the titans. It will be Middleboro's own Superbowl.

Jessie should for moderator and give the voters a chance to prove how much they want her and don't want him.

Rocky said...

Breath check at town meeting

bogofree said...

Right now Jessie is 0-1 against him as she barely lost the election to Wayne..a real nail bitter...hanging chads....court orders...recounts. Damn that will be good! Revenge! Battle of the Titans? This will be even bigger! WWE type affair. Cage match! When she gets it I might even attend another Town Meeting.

Man, is that game going to be a disappointment after those thoughts.

Suo Mynona said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
North Slope Rigger said...

The Cards will win in an upset but they'll cover. Bet Cards with the points as it's a lock.


That was Bogo's post on another board. WTF he called every single playoff game. If I had parlayed those games. Bogo, this is like the movie Casino. Are you married to Ginger and is Hal Tony "The Ant?"

anonymous said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XR21qpPrkdo

Middle-burrow ferret said...

Tony "the Ant" was nicknamed the ant by the press from the FBI who called him that little pissant.

He was killed by burying him alive, disproving that he really was an ant.

Anyway look at his picture here and you decide who he looks like.

I look more like Meyer Lansky

anonymous said...

M'burrow ferret:

I don't know what you look like, but the link you provided for the real Tony the "Ant" resembles AB. LOL

Middle-burrow ferret said...

Here's me when I worked for The Purple Gang.

anonymous said...

Hey Family Guy-
MT's a fanatic. MB is not. Pure and simple.

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bogofree said...

MT is a real hard liner. Dedicated and will not waiver. If she wishes to exchange barbs with MB I'm all for it just for entertainment value.

I wish I had bet on every playoff game but if that had happened I'd have probably lost. Only time I ever had a streak like that. Those football cards (for entertainment purposes only) just killed me.

Suo Mynona said...

Jessie please run for town moderator. You can do it

anonymous said...

"MT is a real hard liner."

She would have made a great candidate for the Weathermen. Hmmm.......most of them wound up doing time.

anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Family Guy said...

All the hard work by the anti's will soon go up in smoke now that the yellow brick road ends with a casino or casinos in one way, shape or form.

See MR is back to her usually rants on the town. LOL! Should have put her on the Green Committee.

Suo Mynona said...

Here is classic from the Clark town whiner:
"If you have a night free, please consider attending a town board meeting -- Planning Board, Finance Committee, Zoning Board and so on."

How many "Planning Board, Finance Committee, Zoning Board " has she been to? All that darn cutting and pasting and complaining about what others actually serving on boards have done takes up so many free nights. There is room for an appointed position (no competition from blank votes)

anonymous said...

As I just went over the comments to MTs new blog. God does somebody just have unlimited hate in them.

MT had a nice blog. That just got completly destroyed with nasty comments about someone's children.

Attacking a private citizen and her kids is a little over the top.

Thats the stuff the police need to look into!!!!

anonymous said...

"Attacking a private citizen and her kids is a little over the top.
Thats the stuff the police need to look into!!!!" anon 2:39

I read the comment. It was gossipy NOT threatening, therefore nothing the police would take action on. Now a civil suit is possible if the statements and questions are untrue, but we all know that legal actions persued against anonymous commenters on blogs basically go nowhere except to line lawyers' pockets. A threat is a whole other ballgame, however. Direct or implied threats get taken more seriously by the cops.

For the most part the police don't appreciate nuissance "he said/she said" complaints regarding the blog wars.

I say we go back to the days when we could challenge someone who insulted us to a duel. The accuracy of weapons has improved to the nth degree since the Hamilton-Burr duel. Wouldn't want to be the one who lost the flip of the coin to go first.

Rocky said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
anonymous said...

Doubt very much that JP would risk taking the kind of criticism she doles out at others.

bogofree said...

I actually think Jessie would be rather passive at the meetings and quite a part of the team. I'm serious so put those funny jackets that tie in the back away. My concern would be the temptation to go Bond on us meaning public blog attacks as a concerned citizen. Don’t know until it happens and the Green Committee would be excellent. Not much damage unless she buries me in those goofy little light bulbs.

Those boards mentioned are the learning tools for polishing off your skills. You quickly find out what a novice you are and that sound you hear at every meeting is your ego deflating. Hopefully you can latch onto a mentor that will keep you out of harms way until you get your bearings. Surprisingly important decisions come out of them and the input is valued. At any time the spotlight can shine very bright on a board that was normally dealing with the mundane. Adds to the resume for service.

I’ll have to wander over to the MT blog and see what is up based on a post or two here. Sometimes questionable comments posted anonymously and just editing screw-ups…not that it ever happens here. Pristine site this place.

drive-by said...

Bogo-you asked about the 'Vette. Was daydreaming and image googled vintage model. Way out of my price range I'm sure, even for a restoration kit. I like the old models that were pre-stingray. Oh, and I AM a "Route 66" fan. Ah, the freedom to meander cross country at will. Then there was marriage!!! LOL

Curious-anyone know if the "Chicken House" is just closed for the season or if it went belly up? It's the only restaraunt I like for atmosphere, food, and Irish whiskeys (jamesons, baileys, and frangelica topped off by creme de menthe laced whipped cream). My cholesterol binging joint.

drive-by said...

Went to Vegas a couple of times. The strip is a little over-stimming after a couple of days. Too much light even on plane approach at night. Would never do more than 2-3 days again. Cirque de Soleil was impressive though.

AC= Dump City. Balleys = 3 stars IMO

Foxwoods is OK. Wifey likes shows at Mohegan Sun (Andrea Bocelli, etc.)

My favorites.....Washington State...quiet, small, clean. Usually lose whatever I win and end up breaking even. Can't understand how they can tell when you're card counting. Only bad experience was flying Air Tramp. Cramped, small aircraft.

bogofree said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
bogofree said...

I do believe the Chicken House is now plucked. I'm sure it will resurface when the economy is better but by that time PETA will have us all eating tofu.

A new casino study was released and it was quite pro. Naturally I shall expect the usual response from the anti crowd that is just a mirror image of the response from the pro crowd when they link to a favorable study for their view. I have learned to pay little attention to the cherry picking from either side.

The early Corvettes are quite pricey antiques for what amounted to experimental junk trying to copy sleek foreign cars at a discount price. Never liked the Sting Ray but that has always been the benchmark of style and performance. Chevy has continually improved the brand until today it is the finest sports car in the world for under a $100,000 and a lot better than most over that figure. Corvette has a museum at their assembly plant at Bowling Green, Kentucky. Corvette has also ceased production until March first and still has 2008 models available. Fully loaded Z06 convertible can be had for about $72,000 with the hardtop about 5 large less. Really being discounted.

I have been to Las Vegas several times and that was only because of steep discounts. The casinos I went to in Washington State fell in two categories: Cheesy highway strip mall and elegant rural enclaves of taste and style. Smallish by the monster gin mills of Las Vegas and Connecticut with around a 1,000 slots, fewer table games, smaller shows and fewer shops. One I went to you didn’t even know it was there. Blended right into the landscape. Could actually say the gin mill was architecturally beautiful so it can be done. Tribal casino, also.

Foxwoods is just not fun since I feel trapped. No place to go. In Vegas you can wander the strip to reduce the boredom but not at Foxwoods, Mohegan Sun and even Atlantic City.

drive-by said...

Really loved Seattle, especially the Market Place near the wharf. Best crab entrees I've had anywhere and loved the little Russian bakeries. Didn't realize Seattle was such an enclave for recent Russian emigres.

Stayed at the Hilton Sea Tac (sp ? whatever). Air so clean for Massachusetts polluted lungs. Whole state seems to be way ahead of us in "Green", though snow at Mt. Rainier in August was a bit gray. Little museum at top of park was interesting. But what caught my interest most was watching inexperienced climbers being rescued. Would like to do an Alaska cruise out of Seattle someday, but snow has lost its appeal for right now. Looking for deals to St. Augustine for April. Need a reprieve from seasonal affect disorder.

Middle-burrow ferret said...

I hope the new casino is going to have a auto race track. I'd love to test out that imaginary racing blue new ZR1 I'm going to buy with the make-believe millions I'm going to get from the billionaire investors for my support of the casino.

220 mph... pretty fast for a ferret.

bogofree said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
bogofree said...

Drive-By....Pike Market is an interesting tourist stop and a trip to the Indian Reservation out on the islands for a salmon feast is always a must. Nice waterfront in Seattle with small shops and restaurants. Seattle is also very walkable. A real treat is the Boeing plant and their museum.

We drove around Rainier and that takes quite a bit of time. We actually had lunch at a inn within the park. Great drive up into the mountain with wonderful scenery and those waterfalls. Nice knowing it is an active volcano.

We try to stay at the airport - SEATAC - since you can get some great rooms for about $50 a night. Just make sure it is a name place like Comfort Inn and check guest reviews. City is only a 15 mile drive.

The ZR1 may be one year and out. I had my ‘Vette up to 140 on Route 44 before the road had opened. Long story as I was with a state trooper so we both took it out for some fun. 0-60 in 4.1. Mine is suppose to hit 186 and I had some room left on the pedal and once had it up over 155 on the runway at New Bedford Airport. The Z06 has 505HP and that ZR well over 600 which says where can you drive it? Only reason I went on 44 was the road was pristine - just like a runway. No frost heaves of ruts. Hit one of those at 100+ and you will go flying. Have not had a ticket in 25 years. I guess all that HP is called “Compensation” and Dr. Ferret can discuss that! LOL!

Pathetic Town Bloggers said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Reporting said...

Question of the week. Do you think that MR and BB make attempt to provide balanced opinions?

anonymous said...

"But Richard Young, president of the group Casino Free Mass, said the Middleboro casino would lead to a loss of spending — and jobs — in tourism, restaurants and other sectors"

Mr.Young how can you stand there and say that with a straight face?

No jobs will cause all those problems 10 fold!

Just tell us how to do it Mr. CFM President, Tell us how to create Thousands of jobs for the working people?

I hear your No Casino message, But I don't hear the solution.

As we watch our friends lose there jobs, Lose there houses, struggle to make ends meet. What are we going to do?

My message is any job is better than no job!

No job would lead to a loss of spending — and jobs — in tourism, restaurants and other sectors 10 fold.

anonymous said...

Quote from CFO website.

"Middleboro is fully employed - meaning that most residents who want a job already have a job"

The article I just read says Middleboro has the highest unemployment in the region? 8%

Ok! Set me straight with the real facts. Anyone?

anonymous said...

Tribe: Casino deal would create 45,000 Fla. jobs

By BRENDAN FARRINGTON
Associated Press Writer

TALLAHASSEE, Fla. (AP) -- The operator of the Seminole Tribe's Hard Rock hotels and casinos told a House committee Monday that the state can immediately use $288 million and will soon have another 45,000 jobs if the gambling agreement Gov. Charlie Crist signed with the tribe stays in place.

James Allen, the Seminole Gaming CEO and chairman of Seminole Hard Rock International, told a House committee on Monday that the tribe is working on plans to expand its Florida hotels and casinos and estimates the projects will add $4.5 billion to the state's economy when finished.

"We think this is about jobs," Allen told the House Select Committee on Seminole Indian Compact Review. "We're out hiring people. We're not laying people off."

His job projection includes almost 12,000 more people hired by the tribe and another nearly 34,000 jobs created indirectly.

Family Guy said...

I think the cfo site needs to be revised.

Casino addeding to the economy and what cost is the key. Thing is no one will know. Cherry picking information has been mentioned.

MR and BB offer a view that is totally slanted.

Pro Casino said...

BOGO has the best information.

First hand facts!

anonymous said...

This morning's posters are pushing for short term, bandaid solutions for log term problems. The casino, if it comes at all, is years away. People's needs are in the here and now. Don't place all your bets on a long shot. We need relief now. Perhaps the creation of programs like the WPA are called for. We need a bail out for real people not for banks and big businesses who created this situation.

Suo Mynona said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Suo Mynona said...

Don't forget 50 bucks is minuscule if your family is among the 8 percent out of work and with no health insurance. (A closely held secret by non-d*psh*t first rate citizens)

Suo Mynona said...

I was wondering. Does anyone know if know if 3rd rate d*psh*ts trespass?

Pro Casino said...

Lightbulbs break all the time. So why would a single broken bulb in a Maine household trigger the state's Department of Environmental Protection to refer the homeowner to a decontaminator?

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As effective as it is at enabling white light, however, mercury—sometimes called quicksilver—is also highly toxic. It is especially harmful to the brains of both fetuses and children. That's why officials have curtailed or banned its use in applications from thermometers to automotive and thermostat switches. (A single thermostat switch, still common in many homes, may contain 3,000 milligrams (0.1 ounce) of mercury, or as much as 600 compact fluorescents.)

Who promotes these toxic time bombs?

Suo Mynona said...

On Jobs:
Real simple. Any job is the most important if it is yours. Especially if you are trying to support a family, are about to get laid off with no prospect getting abother.

That is a cold hard fact. People should not speak of any job negatively.

Pro Casino said...

Without Jobs Facts.. These areas will grow.

Crime.
Substance abuse.
Prostitution.
Battering.
Homeless.

It would seem what your trying to prevent will grow anyway!

Middle-burrow ferret said...

add depression from mild to severe (and consequences on the family) to the list of effects of being unemployed.

anonymous said...

And who can afford antidepressants with the loss of insurance benefits?

bogofree said...

I just can’t see the easy capital that would be needed to build a gin mill if the path was clear today. I could see slots being shipped right into sites that are up and running – the tracks. As far as the jobs creation of bailout II I am the ultimate skeptic. Didn’t really work that well for FDR and I suspect it won’t now.

If you examine the various blogs we all have an agenda to one degree or another. I really get a wee bit upset when I see research done that is fabricated which is how this site started. On the nemasket site I would occasionally post links that would contradict my opinion and links I had to support it. An attempt - luke warm - to provide balance. Look at all the info and try to make an informed decision.

That brings up the issue of changing opinions. I always - all these I's I'm sounding like BB - Have felt that as new facts are presented it is better no to dig one a deeper hole by neglecting the obvious. I voted for Bush - ask me about that now. I voted for Jessie - ask me about that now.

Pro Casino said...

"Homeless Motto"

As long as there are bridges, I'll have a home.

As long as there is garbage, I'll have a meal.

As long as I have a church, I'll have clothes.

As long as I belive in God, I'll survive.

Suo Mynona said...

I am speaking in a general sense. Some people speak negatively about some types of jobs. Some people do not realize how important a few bucks are to others.

Middle-burrow ferret said...

bogo, on the cash needed to build a casino in Middleboro, I have no idea how this works for the investors or what their access to cash is. Do they have a group of their own investors or are they just planning to use their own money? I don't know.

Regardless, there's no doubt hard times have hit the gambling industry. Read this Jan. 25th article, for example.

But hard times represents opportunities too, as this article shows.

One point made there is that slot machines haven't changed much since they were invented as mechanical one armed bandits, even evolving to be computerized eye candy we have now.

Who knows what is next in the technology of these money makers, but I'd look to cutting edge video games for 3-D like displays and even headphones to personalize the experience for players. Instead of the player feeling like he or she is outside looking in, they will experience a feeling of being inside the action.

I can see versions of video games only instead of playing for points and to reach the next level, you play for money.

Since the Mashpee casino, and any other new casino, would be challenged to lure cash strapped customers, it makes sense that they will want to offer something unique.

While Mohegan Sun and Foxwoods are scrambling to keep existing customers, no doubt innovating as much as they can, Middleboro's casino can open with a grounds up state of the art and science of "gin mill".

We are D*psh*ts said...

Post by Belanger:
"If a comment is insulting or has a tone that is going to detract from the discussion - in my estimation - then it doesn't get published"....."Any comment that contains anything that is over my personal line doesn't get in"

So, by his standards, calling your neighbors third rate d*psh*t citizens is not insulting or cross his personal line. Great BB just great. Keep up the high quality standards.

bogofree said...

Ferret...I'm sure the casino investors/developers will look for opportunities where they can get it. Consortium just like any major project. Many wallets, hedge funds and pension funds to look at for sources. Heck I’d toss in some money. The bottom line is the mega casinos are doing OK or are in survival mode due to the economy. Great bargains in Las Vegas and Foxwoods recently shed 700 workers. Las Vegas is no longer a "hot" city to move into with the housing market in free fall and casinos handing out layoff notices. Las Vegas Sands is a penny stock but some casinos are managing to make some money or keep even. Is this a good time to invest based on that? I doubt it. Risk reward thing. As the economy turns around in 2009 or 2019 then the money will flow in since that reward factor will change.

The local gin mill may be able to support a scaled down version of the original glorious plans. But it would take years to build and get infrastructure up and running. If the legislature is so hot on this they may just start tossing slots around and get bidding on licenses. Tough to call. Everybody posting opinions on this issue have had their share of misses as I certainly have.

Personally I’d love to see non casino jobs developed over casino jobs and eventually a casino or two be build since it does offer an entertainment and sin diversion. I’m not against them but would prefer a non rural site such as Boston or New Bedford. If Mboro becomes victim then get as much cash as possible.

With that other site mentioned I can only fall back on what I have said many times - nothing more consistent than inconsistency. Each site has its own standards and if you find any here just post them.

Middle-burrow ferret said...

Hey bogo, I don't think they plan to make their money off of being a gin mill. They will be a carpet joint (certainly not a sawdust joint).

If Bugsy ever heard you call The Famingo a gin mill you'd have ended up in the parking lot with two broken legs.

The ideal place for a casino as far as I'm concerned is a location where it replaces an eyesore with something far nicer.

For example in this area the built up business section of Rt. 44 in Raynham could be leveled, turned into a greenway with a resort casino set back from the road where there's a couple of hundred of available acres.

New Bedford and Fall River have lots of acreage with abandoned factories that could be ripped down. Millions of tons of loam could be trucked in, the area landscaped with mature trees, ponds constructed, and a beautiful resort casino built.

Of course all this would involve taking over numerous parcels of privately owned land. And it would cost a fortune.

Building on piece of rural property is a bargain in comparison.

bogofree said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
anonymous said...

Suo quote

"Some people do not realize how important a few bucks are to others."


Can that be branded to MB's butt? Is that thing finally dead?

anonymous said...

His butt or the CPA? LOL!

anonymous said...

Was it Remy Martin Louis XIII at around $1,600 retail? It could be.

Suo Mynona said...

The whole town (at least the 15 people that read the blogs) are still waiting for BB to back his comment that:

"In the meantime, it's clear the CPA opponents, at least the ones at the BOS meeting don't actually want discussion of CPA, they want it stopped."

anonymous said...

Adam Bond's theatrics don't interest me in the slightest. But I do find the refusal of the BOS to answer a private citizen's question about Mr. Bond's allegation that the BOS is co-opting with the tribe troublesome. It is a legitimate question which I would assume any innocent party would want to make clarification on.

bogofree said...

I can accept the excuse put forward by Pat Rogers - for now. In the past I have send letters to the BOS and they seem to fall into some administrative black hole. They have a whole week to get a cognizant answer together from the concerned citizen and many others. Don't expect any open mic nights although they would be fun.

IMO this BOS seems quite adrift at this point and the meeting the other night reminded me of a nitpicking contest with Steve Spataro the winner. Good thing they didn’t go metric on him. In a few months The Good Old Days will be when Adam Bond was on the BOS - now that is a frightening thing to contemplate.

anonymous said...

His theatrics do not excite me either. Also an allegation does not necessarily make a legitimate question. Allegations are easy to make. I have not followed it that closely. But an allegation is nothing more than an allegation. Just think how rich the town would be if it had a nickel for every allegation that been made over the last two years.

anonymous said...

He needs to answer some questions.

anonymous said...

Who needs to answer some questions? And about what?

bogofree said...

Interesting article in The Enterprise today regarding adding slots and casinos to the state ledger. What was mentioned is how quick the slots could be up and running - 90 days once approval is given. Now the slots will be at the tracks. What happens when the tracks close?

Hal and I have discussed this briefly in the last few days. Slots are nice short term income grabbers or tax generators. Little of both to me.

bogofree said...

This just in! President WOW claims we are headed for a “Catastrophe” if the bailout blob is not passed. Didn’t “W” say the same thing? This bailout II seems to grow faster than my waistline. The problem is the reward. Why in the world do you reward bad behavior? IMO WOW and his Democratic cohorts now realize that this is truly a magnificent mess that no matter how much spin is put on will continue to get worse. Since the electorate has a Bogo type itty bitty attention span that translates to “See ya” during the next election

Suo Mynona said...

Brother Can You Spare A Dime

Real people are getting really worried about money and getting (or keeping) a job. I talked with three people today all in near dire conditions. This is economy is going to even worse according to my crystal ball. The day may soon come when the elderly that are on painfully low fixed incomes are better off than people that have (had) well paying jobs.

People are hurting. It is a good time to donate to your favored charity if you have a few extra bucks or old clothes.

anonymous said...

Terrorism

Terrorism is the systematic use of terror, especially as a means of coercion.[1] At present, there is no internationally agreed definition of terrorism.[2][3] Common definitions of terrorism refer only to those acts which are intended to create fear (terror), are perpetrated for an ideological goal (as opposed to a lone attack), and deliberately target or disregard the safety of non-combatants.

Some definitions also include acts of unlawful violence and war. The history of terrorist organizations suggests that they do not select terrorism for its political effectiveness.[4] Individual terrorists tend to be motivated more by a desire for social solidarity with other members of their organization than by political platforms or strategic objectives, which are often murky and undefined.

[4] The word "terrorism" is politically and emotionally charged,

[5] and this greatly compounds the difficulty of providing a precise definition. One 1988 study by the US Army found that over 100 definitions of the word "terrorism" have been used.

[6] A person who practices terrorism is a terrorist. The concept of terrorism is itself controversial because it is often used by states to delegitimize political opponents, and thus legitimize the state's own use of terror against those opponents.

Terrorism has been used by a broad array of political organizations in furthering their objectives; both right-wing and left-wing political parties, nationalistic, and religious groups, revolutionaries and ruling governments.

[7] The presence of non-state actors in widespread armed conflict has created controversy regarding the application of the laws of war.

While acts of terrorism are criminal acts as per the United Nations Security Council Resolution 1373 and domestic jurisprudence of almost all countries in the world, terrorism refers to a phenomenon including the actual acts, the perpetrators of acts of terrorism and their motives.

Pro Casino said...

I'm a lonely anti blogger.. As lonely as can be..

Don't cry blogger.. I'll keep you company..

The Internet Avenger said...

"Adam Bond's theatrics don't interest me in the slightest. But I do find the refusal of the BOS to answer a private citizen's question about Mr. Bond's allegation that the BOS is co-opting with the tribe troublesome..."

It seems to me that Bond's allegation refers more specifically to the BOS being co-opted by the Investors, not the Tribe. Isn't Steve Graham directly employed by the investors, not the Tribe? I don't doubt Bond's allegations for a second. He is a lawyer and smart enough not to make a potentially libelous statement in a public forum without concrete evidence to back up his claims.

There is no question that Adam Bond became a thorn in the investors' sides, because he clearly was a tough negotiator on behalf of the Town. When he wanted to revisit the agreement in light of the indictments, I think it is entirely conceivable that the investors may have used their influence with certain BOS members to instigate a coup against Bond. His departure certainly makes life a lot easier for them - now doesn't it?

I find it very troubling that certain bloggers are making light of threats against Mr. Bond and his family - implying that Bond is making it all up. Clearly, something DID happen outside the public eye or we wouldn't have plain clothes Policeman from different jurisdictions shadowing Bond at his last BOS meeting. The Police obviously know something the public doesn't. I think it is unconscienable that people would criticize Bond's "irratic, dramatic" behavior at such a time. How would you act if people were threatening your life, or the safety of your family? Shame on them all - particularly Hal Brown, who I consider to be a disgrace to his profession.

IMO, Brown who once had so much to offer, has behaved like a reckless busybody continually attempting to insert himself into private situations that do not concern him. Brown seems to have become so consumed with the casino issue and his fantasy life as a journalist/photographer that I think he's the one in need of a shrink at this juncture. And the next time Mr. Brown wants to insinuate that others are "racists" - he may want to revisit his own derrogatory and prejudicial commentary that targets people from New York. What's the matter, Hal? Are you prejudiced against New Yorkers?

The "Tribe" as we know it is clearly in a transitional state with a new leadership about to emerge. People should not underestimate them. While some BOS members may be very cozy with the Investors, I'm not so sure the Tribe feels the same way. Will the new Tribe leadership be eager to negotiate with the likes of Mimi & Wayne? I wonder. Should be VERY interesting to watch.

Mimi and her pals may think they've really accomplished something here. As I see it, the town has lost its primary point person, it's best contact, with the Tribe. They've also managed to alienate the only "free" lawyer the town had. Who does that benefit?

bogofree said...

I've always felt the Tribe/investors/developers have had a symbiotic relationship.

It will be interesting to see if the conduct of the BOS - especially Mimi Duphily managed to violate any ethics law. The BOS does have an interest in representing the Tribe on certain matters and would her contact fall under that? Primary responsibility is to represent the best interests of the town. Bond raised a serious issue and that issue will not die.

IMO Adam Bond had an opportunity to reflect on a garbage deal and saw a potential opening that needed to be explored. His methods were just too much drama and public posturing - especially his resignation - just my take and I’m sure others, especially IA, see it differently and have expressed as such. As far as the threats I have no idea of what happened or the extent. Did not like the fact the resignation as that left no voice instead of a lone voice. But he did attempt to articulate a position that many feel comfortable with.

IA took Hal to the woodshed and Hal is free to respond here or on his blog. If he wishes his own turf Hal is free to post the link.

Today someone crashed into the snow bank in front of my mailbox. Icy…woman driver…not paying attention. Those three are enough. She was with her significant other and both were in their early 20’s. Said she was talking to him and “boom.” S**t happens and being a third rate dips**t I know that. Helped them shovel out the mess but could not help notice the car. A wreck of a Ford Escort with a big R where the inspection sticker should go. Front bumper almost off and the tires were bald. He’d just lost his job (Circuit City) and she worked PT as a waitress. Finally used my car to push them out and he says to me “I wish I had some money to give you.” I’ll leave it at that. This is an everyday example of what a previous poster wrote about the economy.

Rocky said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Suo Mynona said...

Hey Bogo how do you expect the Boston Braves to do this year?

anonymous said...

I have a story about being in the Navy, I was a lone E-2 and I always looked up to the E-9 Master Chief he was God in my eye's, He had the title and experience behind him.

If he told me to Jump you bet your bottom I did. Who was I to argue, I thought he knew everything. Heck, He didn't become an E-9 without learning his trade.

Well one day Loading torpedos he was drinking coffee and talking to others, I seen a cable stretching, I knew it was wrong but he was in control and I thought he knew what he was doing, Little to say that cable snapped and almost took my head off. Very serious incident, Anyone with Naval experience knows what I'm talking about.

I caught hell for not bringing it to his attention. I was thrown under the bus so he would look good, Hell he was a Master Chief it couldn't be his fault.

I have lived with that incident for well over 31 years. How someone not owning up to his own mistakes for fear of looking bad. That he needed to blame the wrong doings on an underling.

Seeing I knew the whole truth and never said nothing. Caused a life of questions on the morality that my inner being holds.

Today I am in the same such battle with myself..

Again I'll hold my words.

Just For Today.

bogofree said...

Braves will do well as soon as Yawkey lets them use Fenway so Pereni can build his new park.

I liked that story on the Navy Biz. In the dreaded private sector I have been tossed under the bus more than once and one time I ended up getting canned. Never returned the favors.

anonymous said...

Hal,

As you read the blogs today don't feed into that bull!

They are just looking for you to flip and spill information on him.

Just let it go. Be the bigger person.

I would call the Plymouth DA today though. Just get it on record.

When enough people Complain it will be looked into.

anonymous said...

Only 3 more business days for potential candidates to take out papers. Not surprised at the lack of interest in stepping into muddy waters. Interesting that the loudest voices on the subject of Middleboro town politics seem to be from outside our town.

Rocky said...

you should try being thrown under the horse and buggy

bogofree said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
anonymous said...

Thrown under the horse and buggy....hey, Rocky, were there Mastodons in Middleboro when you were growing up?

AB shall soon pass from our memories.

Rocky said...

no. but for a good read you read the book of Middleboro by Weston. There is a place on Main street you can get it called the library. That big brick building across from the police station.

Family Guy said...

“Ok, no more Internet Avenger or Vegas Val quotes on this blog, please. Obviously Mr. Brown is the target of "shame" du jour, and anyone else could be tomorrow.”


That quote was from the MT blog. In response to a comment posted by IA from this blog. Looks like IA and VV or IA/VV will defend Bond to the very end. LOL!

Noticed BB and MR are still bashing the town web site. Wonder what Marsha was thinking when BB was doing his CPA thing?

anonymous said...

Do they wake up in the morning just thinking of something to hate for the day?

bogofree said...

I do believe the catch phrase for the town web site is PTWS that has been inspired by those who have taken a few well deserved pot shots at it. MB had offered the town one he developed and that went as well as the CPA meeting before the BOS. The town site is just a thing of beauty. I think it was last updated when PacMan was all the rage.

Suo Mynona said...

The complainers should get on a town a board. Then they could be held to those standards to which they hold others accountable.

Suo Mynona said...

Can you imagine what the complainers would say if a selectman was caught trespassing on their property?

Rocky said...

I like the complainers. They give me something to laugh at. They do nothing and make comments like you never told the people about this or that and then they are told that they have not attended the 16 public meetings about the subject over the last two years and make a complete fool of themselves.

anonymous said...

Rocky, I think you are hysterical. You have refined cynicism to an art form. But let me one up you. We are all liars. If we don't lie to others we lie to ourselves. So, I don't believe anything anyone has written or will ever write. And no one should ever trust me. Like everyone on any blog my vision is skewed.

anonymous said...

en brochette. lmao

anonymous said...

Thursday night that was sparsely attended by residents.

Only three residents turned out, prompting Rogers to ask the Planning Board to record its presentation for broadcast on cable.

Hey Pat, There waiting at home for the free website to be built.

anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Middle-burrow ferret said...

My view of the town website is that they should first fix what is broken now. Get the old material into archives and make the site easy to navigate.

For the present forget about the frills. Forget about comparing our site with other town websites.

Adding the page of executive session minutes of the BOS is a good example of just getting something there in a quick bare bones way. That was Pat Rogers' idea and he made it happen in a few days. If someone has the time a few words about the subjects discussed should be added to the list.

Simple listing of contents and common sense indexing is far more important than appearance. For example I don't see a link to executive session minutes on the main page. Instead you have to click four times to find them.

You have to click on Departments, click on S - Z, click on Board of Selectmen, click on Selectmens Minutes and Agendas, and finally click on Executive Session minutes.

The site should add the code for a Google "search this site". I have it on Casino-Friend.com's front page, and it works.

Suo Mynona said...

I wish BB and MR would come over away from their safe haven nemasket.net We have some unanswered questions for them, just like they do for elected officials. Everyone knows that if you ask questions at nemasket like where is Clark CT you will be shunned.

Is it fair to expect them to be held accountable for what they say.?

anonymous said...

Shhh! Suo

LMAO said...

Suo wants accountability? LMAO! Think MB and especially MR would ever do that? Again - LMAO!

I will give credit where credit is due and that PTWS does make us all look like third rate dips**ts. Thing is a wreck and that is the responsibility of the IT manager. MR is dead on with her critique and so is MB.

bogofree said...

The Attleboro Sun Chronicle had an article on the CPA being placed on the ballot for Seekonk. They will be asking for 1.25% and the BOS has mixed feelings. A few look at it as a worthwhile move for future planning and others as a tax increase they cannot support in these perilous economic times. One BOS member against it was quoted as this being an additional $29 be property owner. I was surprised at the figure as I was under the assumption it went in increments of !%, 2% and 3%.

The PTWS is an easy target and so is the IT Director. Just an obvious scan of the site shows it is lacking. Even Mr. Limo had a sharper site. Get Limo to do it. This really seems like a minor issue since the problem has a rather easy and inexpensive remedy but the message that site sends tells a lot. Why hasn’t it been done? Can’t they grab a few kids from the high school to do it? Let Hal and Gladys do it. Let Jessie do it. All those site’s seem better. Maybe MB can get his back out there now that he has a voice on the BOS in Adam? Damn…forgot. Scratch that.

Jobless figures took another bump up. I look for that figure to reach 8% for the next reporting period. Meanwhile the usually threats of dire consequences are emanating from the administration if this baby is not passed. Didn't we hear the same from "W"?

Suo Mynona said...

LMAO...What does that make their batting average? Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while.

The website stinks and should (and could easily) be better.

bogofree said...

Suo. I will give credit even with all the personal pain it inflicts on me. That site, though, is such an easy target. Let's face it the IT "Director" was given a job after he created a nitche for himself. Helps to have a previous track record in town. Same move Bond tried to make to become town manager.

Suo Mynona said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Suo Mynona said...

The problem with BB and MR is they are like Charlie Brown's teacher. Anything they say is Waaa waaa waaa blah blah blah. B*tch, whine, moan, and make accusations (and let them hang out there even when proven wrong) It is an endless stream of monotonous harangues to FIRST RATE CITIZENS (the real Middleboro people).

Do they expect people to spend hours trying to find shreds of positive things when surrounded in constant attacks and insults? BB allows the third rate d*psh*t stuff while he trespasses. Go figure. But I do agree with the other posters. It gives some comic relief.

LMAO said...

Suo, you are so on target. They fire away with a shotgun and they'll hit something. MR gets locked out of some silly azz committee and then starts in on the TM. Notice how when she was first approaching that lofty perch she was nice and polite to the TM? Now? LMAO!

MB got hammered on the CPA and picked up and ran and let his minions do the comments all over the place. Both of them would be abysmal in any committee. Think they could build bridges and negotiate within the confines of such a structure? NFW! Think they would be respectful regarding constructive criticism? NFW! They’d do the same thing Bond did and go public on a blog.

Suo Mynona said...

Bogofree: on the CPA you say 11:23 AM"

"I was surprised at the (1.25%)figure as I was under the assumption it went in increments of 1%, 2% and 3%."

The reason you were surprised was because Belanger did not have any public forum discussions on the CPA. He picked 2% at his first meeting. End of discussion (he complains about Marsha?)

Meanwhile he continues to allow his post that "In the meantime, it's clear the CPA opponents, at least the ones at the BOS meeting don't actually want discussion of CPA, they want it stopped."

anonymous said...

CPA. Is that dead yet? Has MB been standing down by the post office every Saturday? Jessie can help. I can see people that have already signed seeing Jessie and coming back with erasers and white out.

anonymous said...

http://www.bad-news-day.com/father-of-five-kills-family-in-california-after-losing-his-job

GK has a story, real tear jerker, well here is the flip flop side of no casinos.

People are out of work if developers or investors want to build and give people some jobs.

There is a choice for people Go or don't go.

If the guy didn't go to Twin rivers he might of just went to the nearest 7-11 and bought scratch tickets.

Now don't get me wrong niether story belongs in this debate.

But there is two sides to every story.

mildly said...

Yes indeed, CPA is in deep rigor mortis. Let's give it a proper burial and move on.

As for the unemployment rate in Middleboro being at around 8%---those figures probably only represent those currently recieving unemployment benefits, excluding those who have exhausted them. I suspect the actual figure is probably around 12% and climbing. I really don't feel that anyone feels very secure in their jobs at this time.

The only exception may be doctors for which there is a shortage. Just try to get an appointment with a new PCP. Most aren't accepting new patients because their practices are overflowing. Oh, and the going rate is now $125 for a five minute visit with an internist. Specialists like Boston orthopedic surgeons get up to $600 for a brief consultation. So, when Cobra insurance runs dry medical bills become exorbitant very quickly.

Rather burnt out on town politics after all the recent high drama and knee jerk responses from all sides. I feel like we've only been fed bits and pieces. I'll wait for the denouement before I draw any opinions.

mildly said...

Oh, and the casino wars have now degenerated to comic relief value. Comedy of errors.

Hal Brown said...

I've started a dialogue on the Gladys Kravitz blog about gambling addiction which isn't comic relief. In keeping with this I've scrapped the Middle-burrow ferret name and picture.

Hal Brown said...

I also posted this on Topix for the three or four people who may read that but don't read this or any of the other blogs.

I rarely even look at Topix but I believe this is important enough to make an extra effort to get a good discussion going and attempt to bring the antis and pros together for a common purpose.

---------

I hate to see time and energy wasted on name calling, ad hominen attacks, unsupported accusations of unethical or illegal acts, and infighting to the detriment of what's most important. That is looking at what I believe, in agreement with casino opponents, is the most significant aspect of having one or more casinos in Massachusetts. This is the increase in rates of gambling problems and addiction.

Those who want to open conversations with the tribe about the IGA would do better to focus on the paltry amount allocated to gambling addiction (and none for education) treatment instead of the payout to the town.

Instead of throwing around figures like $20 million dollars how about the annual figure of $120,000 for local area addiction treatment and education. At the state level when there are meetings to hammer out a compact I'd like the tribe to fund at least $1 million a year in research.

I've opened a dialogue on gambling addiction between myself and those who post on the Gladys Kravitz blog. Check it out and consider participating in the discussion.

I think it is very likely we will end up with one or more casinos in the state and because of this it's about time the pros and antis got together on taking a proactive approach to the increase in gambling problem rates.

I don't want to see an end to CFO. If and I believe when casino gambling comes to the state these committed people and their organization can be a potent voice in demanding that Massachusetts ends up with addiction education, research and treatment programs second to no other state.

anonymous said...

Hal I have checked MT's blog and seen the exchange. If you came through the door everyday at 8AM and I slugged you with a 2X4 would you continue to go through that door each and every day? Well you have when you attempt to do a legit exchange on her blog. If you were not a therapist it would work but IMO it seems a bit on being insincere. Supporting a casino and gambling when you readily admit to the downside is like getting a recovering alcoholic a bottle of Hennessey for a present. Frame it any way you wish and it all comes up snake eyes to me.

I have no problem with gambling. People have done it since day one. I can see Ugh and Blat discussing in sign language who can toss a spear the farthest while betting sea shells. No different today as technology, psychology and plush engineering have all combined to make billion dollar palaces to help fulfill that urge. They can toss a billion dollars a year into compulsive gambling addiction and it will accomplish nothing. They can ban it 100% and other outlets will take its place. That is a fact.

mildly said...

Mr. Brown-

My comic relief comment had nothing to do with you personally. I don't even know you, although I have read all the unflattering comments posted regarding you as a professional lately both here and on other blogs. And that's just my point. The name calling and character assassinations has become tedious and is certainly unproductive. I can't even see any purpose in continuing that "debate" because the lines in the sand were drawn long ago, and I don't see anyone budging from their stands.

When a situation becomes stressful, one way to effectively cope is to find the humor in it. So to me, knowing this debate is going nowhere, that closed minds on all sides are unlikely to open, it has become impossible to take the re-writes of the smae old lines seriously anymore.

To prove my point, look at Gladys Kravitz' blog. Don't you see that the discussion is going nowhere? What I see is a living tragic comedy playing to the same very small audience over and over again. I and most I know are not players. We're in the balcony now throwing popcorn at the stage. This all now reminds me of the pathetic matinees parents used to send their kids to every Saturday afternoon so they could get a break from us. We hated being there but didn't have any choice except to laugh and make rude noises in hopes that the ushers would catch us and throw us out.

bogofree said...

Hal - we have gone round and round on this in the past and there are two issues with the first being your professional credentials and support for gambling and the second being intervention.

One the first I don’t care how you present it - being in favor of Indian gaming - the result still is support of gambling. And one thing that has always frosted me is that with Native Americans the addiction rate in other areas such as drugs and alcohol is quite high yet they support a product that will also have a high addiction rate with considerable negative consequences. That addiction hurts not just the gambler. The fact that you support it with said credentials is to me hypocritical. I see a stream of negatives that you put forth but the bottom line is still support. I read your casino visit and the bottom line is still support. If this was non Indian gaming would you still support it? Is this just about some score settling for past treatment of the ingenious peoples? I know we had both agreed in another time and place that there is considerable collateral damage associated with a casino but we were both willing to accept it. That says more about the both of use and our moral barometer than I’d care to reflect upon.

The second issue is intervention and I fully agree with Anon in that I don’t care how much you spend or how restrictive you make it the problem will still persist. My father was a degenerate gambler and I have seen first hand the financial devastation it can cause. The government and casino operators can toss as much feel good money at this as they wish and IMO it will accomplish nothing. The casino will just provide a nice scratching post for the itch.

bogofree said...

Mildly you are so correct. The battle lines were drawn long ago and IMO Hal is shoveling you know what against the tide in any attempt to open a debate.

Hal...my wife is like MT and a few others. Hard core. The lovely Cynthia is not the public zealot that Gladys is but is the same zealot when it comes to no casino PERIOD! Just not public or on a crusade. She has the same attitude that others do when they find out about your credentials and I will not comment on that. My problem is I consider your position totally hypocritical and shortsighted based on those credentials but can fully understand it and if I was a therapist would probably be the same. A big contradiction? You bet (pun intended). Is there room in the burrow?

anonymous said...

Hal-
Bottom line: YOU can't open lines of communication between pros and antis because you are not a neutral party. One pro and one anti already tried that. Didn't work for them, won't work for you.

Family Guy said...

Hal

This is as neutral site as it gets and you, my friend, carry a ton of pro casino baggage. You have been a major target for the anti casino forces and now you want to have a legitimate exchange regarding compulsive gambling? Hal, you want a CASINO! They don't want a CASINO! The anti's consider a casino to be an enabler to addictive gambling and your position makes you an enabler.

drive-by said...

Hal,you are waffling. And most folks find wafflers offensive and disingenuous.

chica said...

Hal

Is this all about the casino or indians? Was it Bogo that asked that? Is he onto something? Is this a White Man's burden thing? Is this moonbat guilt? If that is what the support is all about put it in reverse.

Hal Brown said...

I don't see where I'm waffling.

I thought a casino was inevitable early on. I figured the investors had a winning strategy with various contingency plans. Once they owned the land here, Middleboro was "it", and they knew they could use the class 2 threat to leverage a vote for the IGA.

They expected resistance and knew that the money for the town would sway the vote in favor especially if the choice was a casino coming anyway and not getting any direct payments.

I believed that the land would be put into trust despite all the protests. I believed that the least preferred option the investors had was to go the route of the Seminole in Florida by starting with class 2, but I thought that the state would never allow that to happen and would approve class 3 to stop it and get a cut of the action through a compact.

With eyes wide open I knew gambling was coming to Massachusetts but never thought about the state getting gambling fever now that it appears that we'll have several casinos and racinos.

I am against more than one casino in the state. I am especially against racinos which are nothing more than slot machine parlors.

Since I thought we'd be having a casino here anyway and could end up getting no direct money, I figured that into my looking at all the pros and cons of which side to come down on.

Those who are calling me names don't seem to want to see that I made what I thought was a logical decision which took into account the increase in problem gambling and gambling addiction.

I understand how susceptible people become victims of slot machines which have no other purpose than to put the principles of operant condition into action to get people to spend more money.

Anybody who spends more money than they can afford on slot machines, scratch tickets or any other form of gambling is a victim - they are as I wrote today behaving just like a rat or pigeon in an operant conditioning experiment.

I wrote that you don't have to meet the criteria to be a compulsive gambler to be a problem gambler.

People who think they have a system to beat the slots and never spend more than they plan to have a problem because they are not only deluding themselves but probably putting themselves at risk. If they win more than usual they won't know it was by pure chance but think it was their system. I don't know if this has been researched. If not it should be.

Those who say I don't understand about the dangers of casinos, particularly slot machines, this haven't read what I've written about it.

I could go on and on but it gets so tedious to repeat myself.

Hal Brown said...

Is it all about the Indians?

Come on. Please don't put me in the position of sounding more pompous than I already do. You all know about the Indian Gaming Act. It was a bad idea because it helped the gambling industry to spread like a wildfire across the country and this increased gambling addiction rates.

The fact that tribes had a new way to lift themselves out of poverty was legislated and you don't have to be a moonbat or crazy to be glad for them on one level and be against casinos on another.

I don't think the bell can be unrung.

The most profitable forms of gambling are those that use the conditioning model of random reinforcement. Slot machines are the worst, but all games of pure chance like keno and roulette are similar.

As I wrote some time ago, the scratch ticket uses an operant condition model.

From a public health standpoint these forms of gambling should be considered a serious health hazard and be banned.

But because gambling is an impulse control disorder as opposed to an addiction, it's not going to be made illegal like cocaine and heroin.

I hope with a new administration we have federal legislation. But let's face it, cigarettes are still legal and account for half of all cancer deaths and contribute to many other fatal illnesses.

I'd like the new administration to fund new research and funnel money to the states for treatment programs.

North Slope Rigger said...

Hal I sent Bogo an email to find out WTF this was all about? Gladys? MT? What do I know? I certainly had a go around with you before but this is different. You will get nowhere attempting to debate this issue in a forum that is on their turf, has a entrenched group and has someone that they appear to genuinely hate. I’m not talking just about the topic but personally hate you. I can do a search on blogs and I can go to the links. Hal, don’t even waste your time. As the old saying goes you could walk on water and save the Pope in the process and they’d say “Hal can’t swim and hates non Catholics.”

Bogo and I are on the sports boards and are both die hard Sox fans but you will deal with Sox fans and Yankee fans that are like three monkeys in baseball uniforms - see, hear and speak no evil on their teams. Forget stats. Forget logic. Forget history. Forget everything as it is all on an emotional level. Just to give you an example it’s like the moonbats with Bush. No matter what he did they’d still hate him. You are Bush and they are moonbats in this analogy.

anonymous said...

blah..blah..blah..blah
All double speak
Sorry-- can't play both sides of the fence

Well, Hal, you blew this one
By proving you'll turn on a dime
No one now trusts you

The state now has the trump card
With 3 resort casinos and slots at the Tracks, Middleboro wouldn't be profitable to the investors
No investors = No Middleboro Casino
Not in these times

State wins, Hal loses

LMAO

bogofree said...
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bogofree said...

FYI to fellow posters as Hal’s site has run into some mischievous spamers.

Hal...I checked out GT's blog and now I now how a punching bag feels. And you will get it here as some have already delivered a few shots and they were not cheap shots. I think just about everything that could be said vis a vis Hal’s position has been stated and not much new as much of it is just regurgitated positions, comments, name calling and flaming by all involved. IMO the posts on this site have been within the boundaries of good taste but remember I’m the last one to even determine what constitutes good taste in blogging.

The state will have slots at the tracks within 30 days of passage. Pacheco was quoted, I believe, as 90 days but this is big, big bucks that hackerama is thirsting for. Towns are bleeding red and the latest rendition of bailout II has severely cut handouts to the states which trickle down to local communities. Right or wrong casinos are viewed as a job enhancer and a cash generator for strapped budgets. I’m not here to defend that position but state that is the perception.

Support for gaming is not like a smorgasbord where one can just pick and choose. As with nuclear energy the genie is out of the bottle and that happened with the lottery. Some don’t like the term of inevitability but that is exactly what it is for the public wants it and so do the pols and that all comes back to the perception of jobs and revenue being generated by casinos. Those casino licenses will come quick and I have often said the first to built is the first to win and right now the Tribe is lagging behind. IMO their out is to just scrape the whole thing and either go home or negotiate a deal to build a commercial gin mill.

anonymous said...

The investors cut Marshall loose to pay his own legal fees. They will similiarly cut the tribe loose if their profit margin doesn't look big enough. Like bogo always said, "Sol Kerzner never loses". He won't throw good money after bad money. He'll move on to to more fertile ground in a heartbeat. He has no loyalties except to his offshore and Swiss bank accounts.

anonymous said...

Another point is that Kerzner isn't known for funding charities. Anyone who thinks he gives a d*mn about gambling addicts and programs to help them is dreaming. It's all about the money and nothing else.

bogofree said...

Sol is a POS in my opinion. This is the Madoff of casino development. Four times indicted and never convicted. Sol and his band make money off the weakness of others and contribute zero to society except for everyone to feel good about blowing money a quarter or a Franklin at a time. They do not manufacture anything but the same dreams the lottery manufactures. The lottery gives back to the cities and towns by taking money from people living on hope and a shot at the big prize. Create jobs? So will a steel mill, a bio research facility, a farm or a college. Sol is just a higher class mobster with more refined methods and better connections. What they have spent is chump change of about 15Mil to legitimize a tribe and then a few million more to keep everything greased. Mboro gets what? 251K once a year? We'll get 7-11 Mil out of a billion dollar plus operation. We tried to negotiate with these folks for a good deal? These are the big boys dealing with naïve hayseeds.

They'll build casinos in Massachusetts but the key is who will build them, what we collectively get out of them and how much serious regulation the state can exert.

anonymous said...

Selectman Bond said he was “irritated” by Mr. Fohlin’s letter, saying it was a “tantrum”. He said the letter was the first thing he put out. He questioned why Mr. Fohlin couldn’t have contacted a member by phone first.

anonymous said...

anon:2:38

Bond is old history.....gone like the wind....a footnote in Middleboro history.

Dark Knight said...

Anon. I suspect Bond will no longer be a resident six months from now.

anonymous said...

Maybe VV (AKA - IA) wants to defend this drama queen then go for it. He flip flops all over the place. When you show up after your stage show breaking bread with RY and MB tells you all anyone wants to know.

Rocky said...

Is there a pool? I'm in for $5.

When the lottery came in the 70s it came with a reduction in excise tax.

What reduction in tax will come this time? None. They can't. They need to balance the budget.

bogofree said...

Rocky...excise tax was changed in 1981 as it was piggy backed onto prop 2 and 1/2. Lowered from $66 per thousand to $25.

I think Bond bashing has run its course. At least until he makes another public pronouncement or moves.

Rocky said...

What did the lottery give us in 1973/4?

bogofree said...

The idea of the lottery was to have blue haired ladies scratch $1 tickets and block store traffic.

The scratch tickets started in 1974 and the lottery a few years before that and the idea behind both was to provide aid to the cities and towns. Remember when it was called "The Game?" First drawing was at Fanueil Hall and I was there. Whoopie! Massachusetts was the first state to use scratch tickets and they were $1. I don't think they went higher until early 90s. Massachusetts is usually in the top five per capita for lottery sales by state.

Massachusetts also had the first authorized lottery in the Colonial era. Mid 1740s if I remember correctly.

Did a paper on the lottery for a statistics class in college in the mid 70s and the first lottery diector - whose name escapes me - was a former math prof at MIT (I think).

anonymous said...

Apparently ancient Chinese scrolls indicate that Cheung Leung of the Han Dynasty introduced a game similar to keno around 200 BC. Cheung's city was at war for several years and was beginning to run out of supplies. Rumor has it that the citizens of his city refused to contribute any more to the war fund, so Cheung created a game of chance to produce revenue for his army.

Gambling was here long before us and it will be here long after we are all gone.

Its an indviduals choice as to participate.

I have one thing to say about addiction. The best programs out there for addicts/holics are FREE!! Self supported. No outside contributions accepted!!

drive-by said...

Curious-
I've been noticing on several sites where posters from both sides are accusing some of violation of the RICO Act. I'm not sure how racketeering would apply to the Middleboro Casino saga. Can anyone explain this to me?

drive-by said...

anon 6:46

I don't think ANY addiction program works unless the addict is really self-motivated, and even at that the rate of recidivism is quite high.

Also, if there is a phenomenon called addictive personality, and some behavior specialists question this, it seems likely that the addict would just replace one addiction with another.

anonymous said...

Drive-By---I suppose they'd be referring to influence peddling or using one's influence in government or connections with persons in authority to obtain favors. From what I see "RICO" is just being thrown around as an intimidation tactic.

anonymous said...

Drive-By
You are right on! nothing will work until the participant is willing to accept his life has become unmanagable because of the behaviour.


Some behaviours are hard to spot but others see it well before the active person sees it. Thus comes the act of intervention by family and friends.

Sometimes you just have to detach from the active person because by trying to help them brings you into a state where it becomes harmful to your well being!

Every active addict has to go through there own process, Jails institutions or death.

No one has that much power to stop a person on a path of self destruction unless they too choose to become carnage of the behaviour.

Sometimes its better to let go and let the process take its course.

Its a hard known fact but "detaching with Love" has a real meaning.

Selfish as it seems your health is or should be number 1.

Never become an enabler it only prolongs the enivitable..

Suo Mynona said...
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